Award 3: The Convey

By definition the Convey award goes to the team's Rookie of the Year. But there's a couple of different ways you could interpret that. Do you give the award to the young player who has made the biggest contribution so far this season? Or do you give it to the guy who has the best chance of being a star in the MLS? Or maybe those both describe the same player? The award's namesake Bobby Convey played for United from 2000-2004, starting 18 matches for the club his rookie year.

The man from the mines Craig Thompson has made the most appearances for the team this season, and his work rate and willingness to contribute on both offense and defense has been impressive. He's a decent fill-in player, but it's questionable whether he has enough upside to be a starter in the MLS.

Not only has Ryan Cordeiro been lighting up the Reserve division (for whatever that matters), he's also the only rookie with much to brag about on his league stats. Cord has earned one assist (on Emilio's gamewinning goal against Chicago in June), and almost notched a goal while we were in the process of running up the score on the Rapids last month. In order to get more playing time though, Cordeiro has got to learn to play better defense. Straight up.

Another big contributor this year has been Pat Carroll, with 3 league starts and 4 appearances. He's provided adequate depth in league play and in Superliga when we were hurting for bodies in the back. Time will only tell whether he will end up being a lifetime fringe starter like his brother Brian or his constantly injured soon-to-be-cut brother Jeff.

And finally, the last remaining rookie on the team is Mike Zaher. He's made two starts for the club and played pretty well during those limited chances. Could have a future in this league, if he can work hard enough to overcome his size disadvantage. His look makes me wonder whether he will seek a trade to return to LA this offseason.

poll by twiigs.com

(the 2008 Benny awards)

The first two weeks have surprised me so far in that one player in each poll is still currently receiving over 50% of the vote. This week though, I won't be so surprised...

I think we all saw this coming

In a match where we were missing Emilio, Moreno, Namoff, Fred, Vide, and Peralta, a loss wasn't necessarily surprising. I guess the bright side is that we escaped without any more injuries! Also, I saw tonight that we've got some young players with a lot of heart, and that's got to count for something, even if it didn't earn us any points.


1. The best player wearing white tonight I think was Ivan Guerrero. He showed up to play against his former team.

2. It was no coincidence at all that Santino Quaranta scored within the first 5 minutes after Gallardo left the field. It's becoming more and more evident that center attacking midfield is Quaranta's natural position.


1. That was a bit of a break out performance for Ryan Cordeiro. He had two great chances immediately after entering the match, but both went just wide. It would be nice to see him put a couple more on target, and he still needs to play better defense if he wants to crack the starting XI.

2. I'm hoping that the fantastic hustle that earned him an assist on Quaranta's goal will be enough to give Rod Dyachenko some confidence again. But still, he could win awards for having the worst first touch in all of football.


1. In general, that was just poor team defending by Gonzalo Martinez, Marc Burch, and Mike Zaher on Alvarez's goal. Martinez lost the ball (I wish I could use the adverb "uncharacteristically" here, but that just wouldn't be true) leading up to the first goal, and then again soon afterwards on a play that almost led to another goal. Burch looked better once they switched to the 3-5-2 in the second half, but he was caught in no-man's-land without a marker on both goals. Most of the chances in the first half came on Zaher's side, and he was the guy who should have been marking Alvarez on the first goal. Huckerby's goal was well deserved though.

All in all, we turned in a valiant effort while shorthanded, so you can't fault the club too much for this one. When we were down 2-0, it didn't feel right, but 2-1 is probably the correct score. Ultimately, this wasn't a very heartbreaking loss, mostly because we all saw it coming, and more importantly, because the Red Bulls lost too so it didn't really affect our place in the standings. Let's hope the team is back closer to full strength in time for the Champions League to begin in just over a week.

Mid-Season Review part 1: Acquisitions

Given the focus that this blog has given to United's roster this year, I thought it would be appropriate to base our Mid-Season Review specifically on the roster moves that the team has made. In part 1, we will look at United's acquisitions, meaning the players that the team added since the end of last season that they didn't have to give up anything for. Then we'll move on to look at players who departed since last year and United didn't receive anything in return for. Then in part 3 we'll look at the trades that the team has made. Then we'll end the review with a summary.

Here are the team's acquisitions since the end of the 2007 season, in order from most important to least:

1. I could dedicate an entire post to the trials and tribulations of Marcelo Gallardo, but that's already been done. Specifically here though, we should be discussing what Gallardo adds to United that they didn't have last year. In that regard, he is a playmaker with creativity that has not been seen here since the retirement of El Diablo. But there are doubts about whether or not that creativity is really what the team needed to add. Because with Christian Gomez last year, the team may not have been as creative, but they were certainly more successful. Before the season started, I was insistent that Gallardo was brought to DC because he gave us a better chance in international competitions than Gomez. So how's that going for us? Perhaps it's difficult to truly grade Gallardo's impact since he's been injured for two out of the three tournaments we've played in this year, but if he can guide us to an MLS Cup, or better yet a Champions League title in the months to come, all will be forgiven.

2. United completely rehauled the defense in the offseason with the acquisition of Los Gonzalos. So far, it has been Gonzalo Martinez who has appeared to be the most consistent new addition to the squad this year. He has quickly become one of the best left backs in the MLS, and despite calls for him to play centrally as he did at the start of the year, the left is where he is likely to stay. Gonzalo Peralta had some good games and some bad before going down to injury, and in that regard the early comparisons to Facundo Erpen seem appropriate. He won't have to fight very hard to regain his starting job in central defense from Burch when he returns to the field. But with the new look to United's backline, even though they SHOULD be better than the backline we had last year, why can we still not earn a clean sheet? The team had 8 last year.

3. Maybe the biggest surprise this year has come from the return of Santino Quaranta. With Olsen out, Quaranta has been a revelation (or am I going too far with that word?) on the right wing. He added some attacking flare opposite Fred that was an important part of the team's winning streak prior to his most recent injury before Open Cup. But has his 23-year-old body suffered too many injuries in his career for United to count on him long term? A return to health of Peralta and Mediate might push McTavish ahead of Tino on the depth chart at right wing.

4. Francis Doe has emerged of late as a talented attacking option next to Emilio. I had my doubts about him early on, but with two goals in the Superliga, Doe seems to have learned how to adjust to his new team quite nicely. And with Gallardo injured, Doe's continued production at forward will allow the team to move Moreno into the CAM role without losing too much.

5. Three rookies in Ryan Cordeiro, Dan Stratford, and Pat Carroll have been able to earn quality minutes with the first team this season. I wasn't the only one who criticized the team for drafting Cordeiro over other proven midfielders like Stephen King, but he instantly grabbed my eye in the reserve division, and looked pretty good against Houston in the Superliga finale. Stratford was the first rookie to earn first team minutes, and despite being pulled before half time in that game, the coaching staff certainly sees him as having a lot of potential. Strats picked a poor time to get injured though, because without Gallardo, I think a healthy Stratford will move above Dyachenko on the depth chart very shortly. The youngest Carroll has looked pretty good in Open Cup and Superliga appearances lately, but will likely lose playing time once Peralta, Mediate, and his brother Jeff return from injuries.

6. Three more rookies in Dane Murphy, Jeremy Barlow, and James Thorpe have yet to earn any first team apperances. Murphy has been on the 18-man gameday roster a couple of times, and I think he even got some action in the Rochester match. He's tall and a bit versatile. He seems to play mostly a central midfielder, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Soehn try to convert him into a defender. I saw Barlow score a goal in the opening Reserve Division match this year, but it doesn't seem like the club rates him too highly. He's got a good work rate, but will have to fight to keep his roster spot this offseason. I haven't seen Thorpe play yet, but at least he gave us the depth needed to be able to cut Carvallo from the roster.

7. I have my doubts about the acquisition of Joe Vide. I mean he was cut by San Jose of all places! I don't mind giving Vide a shot, since he was good enough to earn quite a few starts for the Red Bulls last year (yeah, but so could some of the women on my wife's team). But I feel like it might have been too much to give Vide a precious senior roster spot.

8. Let's not waste too much time by talking about these guys who aren't on the team anymore: Franco Niell, Jose Carvallo, and Jeff Curtin. Niell was not horrible in a United uniform, that is the few times that he was standing up (how could you tell?). But his salary was just too much for the team to keep around. I still feel like Frank O'Neal's biggest claim to fame should be this picture. Or this one. Carvallo stunk, we'll just leave it at that. It was unfortunate to lose Curtin due to injury, because he certainly could have been getting some minutes ahead of Burch in central defense if was still with the team.

So with all of those acquisitions, DC United should be a better team than last year. Right? Not so fast. Check back in the next few days for a look at all the players that United has lost.

Still not discouraged

To finish in last place in the tournament that we all had charted as our lowest priority this year isn't exactly a tragedy. It's a little bit disheartening, but not discouraging. Because I think the team played quite well, considering our current injury status and packed schedule. And I also think we showed more and maybe deserved better than the 3-1 loss last night and zero overall points in Superliga.


1. Alright so I'm starting to warm on Francis Doe. Two goals in two matches will do that. I think it took him a bit of time since arriving, but he's now settling in quite well with his new team. And he is quickly earning his spot in the regular starting rotation.


1. This was the game where you all finally got to see a bit of the attacking flare that I've loved about Ryan Cordeiro since I first saw him in the first Reserve match this year. Sadly though, that was overshadowed by his poor marking of Rico Clark on the first Houston goal.

2. He's still got a lot of room for improvement, and needs to be more aggressive, but this was probably the best I've seen out of Quavas Kirk. He missed a goal by about six inches.

3. And another rookie Pat Carroll looked pretty damn good and confident.

4. I like some of the things that Tom Soehn did in this match. It was good to see Cordeiro, Carroll, and Zaher. I was also hoping to see Thorpe and Murphy, but maybe next time. But is it possible that the team has been relying too heavily on some of the non-big-name starters lately like Burch, McTavish, Simms, and Namoff? These are guys who play the full 90 of virtually every outing, and between the Open Cup and Superliga, they've been stringing together a lot of minutes lately.


1. For letting up 8 goals in 3 matches, a bit of general criticism goes out to Zach Wells, Marc Burch, and Devon McTavish. Wells is admittedly improving, and it was mostly the marking to blame for the two set piece goals, but shouldn't a good keeper make one of those saves? It was McTavish's loose defending that allowed ol' Bobby Lightning to score. And where was Burch on either of the two set piece goals? Shouldn't our biggest defender have been marking Boswell?

2. This match also saw Luciano Emilio's hot streak come to a close. He is typically the guy on corner kicks who heads out balls that are struck too low, but failed to clear the first goal, and evidentally left that role absent on the second.

So I'm not taking this match and this tournament as the end of the world, like others would have you believe. The team fought hard, but they know they have to do better. It also gave them a couple of things to work on at practice. We'll see how different Tuesday's match turns out to be.

What I really liked though was the attacking effort of the last 20 minutes or so. Did you notice that all 6 of United's front players at that point are not our normal starters? If this was a Reserve match, you would likely have seen those 6 guys starting. And they dominated possession. That gives me just a little bit of hope for the future. I think that this current crop of reserves is our best in years. But that's a small consolation. Now if only our current starters could be our best in years too...

USOC Player ratings

Since I didn't witness the match myself, the following player ratings are based on excerpts taken from comments written about the game on the Soccer Insider:


1. "For me, Marc Burch was by far the player of the match, and not just because of the 2 goals. Through much of the game, he was among the most active player on the field. In the second half, filling in for Martinez at left back, he kept frustrating the Rhinos' attack, making some impressive tackles and reversing the flow of the game." (ho). "Of course, Burch has to get man-of-the-match for his brilliant grass-cutters. I think he might have even quick-kicked the goalie on the second one." (Fisch Fry)

2. "Pat Carroll was quite good at right back (and offered strong throw-in ability) and then did well in the middle in the second half." (Goff). "Pat Carroll and the new guy Thompson were very good. In Pat, it is nice to see a fullback who can use both feet." (bubbles)


1. "Rod Dyachenko had some nice moments, but disappeared at times in the middle of the park." (Goff) "Rod D did have one scintillating play, where he kicked the ball off the head of a Rhino turned and blasted a shot on net from at lesat 35 yard. Every once in a while he flashes something that makes you sit up and say 'Oh ho! That must be what they see in practices that they like so much.' " (Fisch Fry)

2. "My favorite player of the match was Ryan Cordeiro. He had a few poor touches, but he was the most consistently menacing player for United. With a different offensive philosophy that always looks to go over a defense, Cordeiro would have gotten some breakaways to go with his strong runs on the flank. He also delivered some nice passes." (Fisch Fry) "Cordeiro I thought had a great game - if someone in midfield was a better passer, he could have been very dangerous. He made dozens of great runs, but was only passed the ball twice. " (Lonnie)

3. "I was also impressed with Craig Thompson. I was worried Thompson's size might be a problem, but he handled everything that came his way, and made some good distribution passes from the back." (Dsmac) "Thompson: first touch was nervous. Seemed to calm down after that. Nothing spectacular, nothing horrid." (Old Colt)


1. "I thought Quavas Kirk was awful. Besides the lack of technical ideas, he was severely lacking in fitness. After minute 70 he was done. Cordeiro had to cover alot of space behind him." (Lonnie) "I agree that Kirk's technical ability was lacking. He was put through on a well-timed run and a beautiful ball from [Stratford], but couldn't control it for what should have been a goal." (I-270 Exit 1)

United escapes with a deserved victory

Who would have thought that United's first road victory of the year wouldn't come until June, against the Alpha Dog of the league Chicago? In the first half, this match felt like a couple earlier in the year, where DC dominated possession and had probably double the scoring opportunities, but failed to finish. But the team pulled ahead in stoppage time, with both goals scored without our supposed best player.


1. Everyone across blogland is lamenting the return of goalscorer Luciano Emilio. If you had showed United's first goal to me without identifying which player is which, no way I would have guessed that Emilio was the set up guy and Moreno was the finisher. But that great play by the Golden Boot winner is what may have triggered the start of a playoff run.

2. Maybe I'm just a bit nostalgic during DC United Championship Week on Comcast, or maybe I regret a bit of my criticism of his captaining abilities earlier in the year, but I was really happy with the performance of Jaime Moreno last night. His leadership up front made a huge difference.

3. I'll give a shoutout to Ryan Cordeiro for his role in the winning goal. He earned credit for the assist. And even though I was yelling at the tv for Emilio to reward Cord when he was wide open, knowing that the rookie has the ability to beat a keeper, Cordeiro still deserves credit for being in that position to keep Busch in the middle of the net instead of cheating towards the near post against Emilio.


1. I actually thought Zach Wells had his best game in weeks. Can't necessarily fault him for the first goal, and maybe this comparison is a bit unfair, but I can't help but think that Troy Perkins would have stopped it. Other than that though, I thought the backline was much more organized and Wells was effective at stopping crosses and corner kicks.


1. Marcelo Gallardo's inability to control his temper lands him down here. Compare Gallardo to what Blanco would have done in the same situation. Blanco wouldn't have retaliated against Prideaux; he would have stayed sitting on the ground for three minutes and complained when the referee finally decided to come over. Also, is it just a coincidence that both United goals were scored after Gallardo left the field? Just something to think about. Of course the counterpoint is that playing 10-on-10 meant there was more space in the midfield, but a part of me feels that the team became more organized in the attack once Gallardo left the field and Moreno assumed the responsibility of playmaker.

2. Not that he had necessarily a poor game, but I really hope that the absence of Gallardo next week doesn't lead to the automatic insertion of Rod Dyachenko to the CAM spot. I hope Soehn has learned now that Dyachenko is barely up to that role for 20 minutes, and is not the answer for 90. I'd rather see either Fred move into the middle, or Moreno move back with Quaranta moving up top. Either way, it's an additional winger like Cordeiro that should be added to the starting XI, not Dyachenko. And by the way, what happened to the mohawk? I kind of thought it fit his style of play pretty nicely.

So with that, United earned 4 points out of 2 road games against who everyone thought were the two best teams in the league. Not too shabby. Now with the team returning home for three straight against New York, San Jose, and LA, I'd like to avoid overconfidence, but there's no reason to believe that the team can't come away with 7 points, which should put them squarely back into the playoff race, as early overachievers Toronto and Columbus continue to return to earth. The next test will be against the Red Bulls, without Gallardo and Namoff, but a team that we have a tendency to dominate at home. Who will get a hat trick without Olsen?

Legs, thighs, and breasts, but no wings

So Goff reported from practice yesterday that with the potential absence of Peralta, United will be switching back to a 4-4-2 for the match tomorrow night in LA. I guess the thought of Domenic Mediate as his lone center back in a 3-5-2 was enough to force Tom Soehn to face reality. But with Marc Burch moving to the back line, and with Fred still gimpy, Goff is also reporting that rookie Ryan Cordeiro may get his first start at left midfield.

Loyal readers should already know my thoughts on Cordeiro. Along with Stratford and Zaher, Cordeiro has been among the most impressive players I've seen on the Reserve squad. He's left-footed, he's got decent crossing ability, and he can even shoot from the outside. Others have pointed out that he's likely to lose the ball a couple times each match, but similar to Quaranta, Cordeiro has got the energy and the heart to chase down opponents to try to win the ball back.

But the idea of starting a rookie has got me thinking… How many wingers does DC really have on their roster? Or maybe a better way to ask this would be… If you were to put every player on United's roster in their BEST position, how many of them would be playing on the wing?

I'd say that given his production last year, Ben Olsen's best position is on the wing, but you can't really include him in this discussion due to his injuries. Fred's preferred position is clearly CAM. Santino Quaranta is best as a withdrawn forward. Devon McTavish might be best on the wing, but he's also a pretty damn good central defender, so that might be a toss-up. I think Marc Burch is better at left back than left wing. Mediate's a utility guy who can play in many different spots, so his best position *might* be on the wing, but it's hard to say. Gallardo, Dyachenko, and Simms all definitely are better off in the middle.

Did I miss anybody? That's the entire senior roster midfield, and not one besides Olsen is definitively a true winger. Maybe McTavish, and maybe Mediate, but keep in mind that both of these guys are earning only the senior roster minimum salary. When is United going to start spending money on the wings? In the offseason they spent a lot of money in central defense, central midfield, and up top, but not a dime out wide. Obviously the team didn't know the severity of Olsen's injury at the time, but surely it was obvious to all of us that Olsen couldn't have more than a couple years left, and his history of injuries has always been troubling. Even if they didn't know that Olsen would be out the whole year or most of the year, the front office should be smart enough to realize that he was never going to be able to play 30 games. So despite Olsen's injury history, and despite the loss of Josh Gros, the front office's solution to our deficiency of wingers was to draft Ryan Cordeiro and acquire a 20 year old developmental project in Quavas Kirk?

I'm starting to lose faith.

But still. If only because of Chivas's ineptitude in defense, I'm predicting our first road goal, but not our first clean sheet. I'm gonna go with a 1-1 draw tomorrow, with United's goal coming from the run of play from a poaching Jaime Moreno.

Reserves fall to 1-1

On an ugly rainy day, the DC United reserves suffered their first loss of the season to a Chicago team that was able to keep the ball in United's half for probably about 65% of what I saw. I only caught the last 30 minutes or so. Better turn out of fans than I was expecting with all the rain and the lack of confidence in the first team. I was actually standing in the pavillion right behind Chicago coach Denis Hamlett. Not quite sure why he was sitting on the bench on the crowd side rather than with his players on the far side. Tom Soehn was man enough to hang out in the rain, why wasn't Hamlett? He was a pretty quiet guy though. Didn't say much aside from a couple "Let's gos".

I didn't see enough of the match to write a full breakdown (if you want, you can find that over here), but I will say that United might have a pretty promising future on the left flank with Mike Zaher and Ryan Cordeiro. Zaher's main role was marking the speedy Calen Carr, which he did well, with just a bit of help from Jeremy Barlow at times. And the two best scoring chances I saw both came from Cordeiro. One was a shot from outside the box that went just high, and the other was a nice cross from the left that just missed Dane Murphy.

Danny Strats was wearing the captain's armband, and was involved in just about every play from his center midfield spot. I saw him break up several plays on defense, including one header on a corner kick. Jeff Curtin was conspicuous by his absense. Francis Doe was very unimpressive. Dare I say that this team really missed Rod?

3 goals by 3 rookies

The United Reserves fought back from a 2-0 deficit early in the second half to earn a 3-2 victory this morning at the RFK training grounds. Sitting out there for two hours, my arms are definitely sunburnt. Check out behindthebadge.com for the full match report, but I'll just point out some observations.

Starting lineup was:

--------------Carvallo----------------
Zaher-Curtin-Mediate-P.Caroll
Cordeiro-Murphy-Stratford-Kirk
---------Niell-Dyachenko-----------

Jeremy Barlow came in for Curtin at the half and played CDM, sliding Murphy back to central defense. If you're keeping track at home, Jeff Curtin was wearing #3 and Mike Zaher was wearing #20.

In a match that featured experienced forwards in Franco Niell and Rod Dyachenko, it was three rookie midfielders that were really the stars, along with some strong support by the two guys who signed just this week. I'm not going to write Top/Call/Rail ratings for the reserves, but this should give you a pretty good idea.

Players who impressed me the most:
1. Dan Stratford - Played the central attacking midfield role well, and had a first-team quality (hell, a Premier League quality) shot that scored early in the second half.

2. Jeff Curtin - Won every header that came his way in the first half. Until the very end of the half, when he went up for a ball and a Crew player cut underneath him, causing a pretty hard landing. That's probably the only reason he was subbed out. Looks like he has the quality to get some first team minutes. Although winning headers against Columbus reserves is probably a lot different from winning headers against guys like Dichio and Angel.

3. Jeremy Barlow - He's got the potential to be our new Moose. He's taller than Niell, but still very short (maybe 5'-7"?) and works hard. I was most impressed by his positioning. He always managed to find his way into open space to give his teammates an outlet pass when pressured. More of a holding midfielder than a true CDM. And his goal wasn't bad either.

4. Rod Dyachenko - Throughout the entire game, the attack constantly flowed through Rod. Without is absolute perfect cross-field pass on Cordeiro's game winner to hit him right in stride, this game would have ended a tie.

Players who I'm not quite sure about:
1. Ryan Cordeiro - Had a fantastic strike in extra time to win the game. Really clutch to bring the ball down and put it away with his left. But I'd like to see him communicate better with Zaher.

2. Mike Zaher - Clearly the FNG was trying to make a good first impression on the coaching staff. He's got some good speed and good work ethic, but he might be a little bit raw. Could have a future as a starting left back if he continues to work hard and refine his skills. I also have a feeling that he is going to be, um, pretty popular with the ladies?

3. Jose Carvallo - Looked shaky early in the match, and was beaten twice early on: once on a shot that went wide, and then on a shot that hit the crossbar. The first goal wasn't his fault, and I didn't have a good view of the second. But Carvallo really settled down in the second half and had a big part in the victory. He had back-to-back saves around the 65th minute on two point-blank shots.

Players I wasn't too impressed with:
1. Quavas Kirk - The dude's pretty big, and maybe needs to grow into his body a bit. There was one point when he lost the ball on the right wing, and then sprinted back to catch the Crew player before he could send in a cross. That's something you like to see. Although I'd rather see him not lose the ball in the first place. The own goal was more his fault than Peralta's was last night. Right off his leg while trying to bring down a corner kick.

2. Franco Niell - Even in reserve matches, he has trouble staying up. He really likes to dive, and obviously there's a language barrier, but he doesn't communicate with his teammates well. He does have a lot of talent though, and he was credited with an assist on Barlow's goal.

3. My camera - I took a bunch of pictures, but they mostly suck. I'll try to upload them to our new Flickr page later tonight or tomorrow so you can see for yourself.

Ryan Cordeiro

How come this year we had two draft picks from the Big East (Cordeiro-UConn, Stratford-WVU) and two from the Pac-10 (Jacobson-Cal, Owens-UCLA), but not a single player from the ACC? So Maryland and Virginia aren't good enough for DCU anymore? I see how it is.

I know I probably just sound bitter, given my blog's namesake, but how do you pick Ryan Cordeiro when Stephen King of Maryland is available? King was a first-team All American, finished his career at Maryland ranked second all time in assists, and has had several call-ups to the U23 national team. Burchie and Dom certainly would have welcomed another Terp to the team.

Instead, United selected forward/midfielder Ryan Cordeiro, a guy who some experts referred to as "a disaster pick." Cordeiro finished his career at Connecticut with 18 goals and 19 assists, and was second team All-Big East in 2007.

This is usually the type of player that United tries to convert to a defender, but so far in the two scrimmages, it looks like Cordeiro has been a second half winger in each game. With so many guys like Kpene, Dyachenko, and Moose turning 25 this year and losing their "Developmental" status, Cordeiro has a good chance of making the roster. Actually, Moose looks to be the best comparison as far as I can tell, because he's an attacking guy who doesn't play too much defense. But hopefully I'm wrong and Cordeiro will turn out to be more well-rounded, like a Mediate.